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Well, here's something that should make us all feel more at ease: After a review by the county attorney's office, signs prohibiting legally concealed handguns in Harris County parks have been removed because officials decided the ban couldn't be enforced.
County Attorney Mike Stafford's office told the court that the county has been violating state law by banning people with concealed handgun licenses from carrying their guns into parks.A complaint from a resident who saw one of the signs while using a county park prompted the county attorney's office to look into whether it is legal to ban the guns, Stafford said.
"He was a concealed handgun carrier. He wasn't arrested," Stafford said. "His complaint eventually went up the line to us."
The county, other public agencies and property owners got the ability to ban concealed handguns after the state approved concealed handgun licenses in 1995. But a 2003 amendment changed the rules for public agencies, saying they could no longer bar guns from their property.
We suppose the change won't really change things — after all, if someone was going to shoot someone at a county park, we doubt a sign telling them they couldn't bring a gun on the property would have meant much anyway. And in case you wondered, you still can't take a gun into schools, courthouses, justice of the peace courts or places where county governmental meetings are being held.
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Please check your sarcastic tone and do not lump licensed concealed hand gun owners into the criminal category. The concealed hand gun owners are *not* the problem. Heck, statistically, they have an above average and excellent safety record and are correctly trained. The issue at hand here is that it should have never been illegal for a licensed individual to carry in the parks.
More importantly, it is still unlawful to carry a gun without being properly licensed and most criminals do not go through the effort of getting licensed since that would involve money and time to take the full-day concealed handgun course. They also require fingerprint which I don't see your typical criminal really being too thrilled about offering.
I know the Houstonist slants to the left (and I typically do too) but this entry was a bit too much for my tastes.
More sarcasm, Jim! No checking of it. More.
Houstonist has a personality, and that's why I read it. If I want "straight" journalism (is there such a thing anymore? seems to me that most news outlets have an agenda, even if they act like they're objective) with no commentary, there are plenty of other places I can visit online.
what's so appealing about carrying a concealed weapon, anyhow? especially into a park!
gun party 2000!
Cybertoad, I didn't mean to lump licensed gun owners in with criminals — my point was, if the fear of someone (anyone) committing a gun-related crime in a county park was a motivation for the ban, I doubt it would have had much of an effect.
Thanks Jim - and I did not mean to jump so hard and I do appreciate the fact that Houstonist is not just a straight out news blog I just get tired of the anti-gun rhetoric and your entry hit a nerve.
The fact is that there are some positive statistics surrounding states with concealed handgun laws including lowered violent crime. I myself am not licensed nor do I ever wish to be but my husband is. I guess I get jumpy because anything "pro-gun" gets attacked without knowing all the facts. Legitimate gun owners are hardly ever the issue. Criminals are and being criminals they will hardly ever follow any established gun rules no matter how strict you make them and how much you try to track them through paperwork. An outright ban will also not solve the issue. You've got be kidding if you think those silly signs saying you can't carry a gun into an establishment ever stop that crazed maniac intent on doing harm.
OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.
Personally, my favorite part of this post was when the resident saw the sign and spoke with the County Attorney's office:
"He was a concealed handgun carrier. He wasn't arrested..." Um. I guess it's cool that we can bring civic matters to the attention of our local government without being immediately arrested. Good grief that quote is asinine.
"Hey, I believe this sign about bringing legally possessed handguns into the park is an illegal restriction under statutory law. Just thought you might like to know."
"You're under arrest."
Nice. I'm glad they have to point out that our government doesn't function that way. So reassuring.
There are actually a number of places in addition to the list mentioned in the post where licensed concealed handgun owners may not carry. Establishments earning the bulk of their revenue from the consumption of alcohol, gambling venues, entertainment venues of a certain size, etc. The REASON for these restrictions has absolutely nothing to do with the trust the state has in its (vastly law-abiding) CHL holders. The real reason is, in fact, a matter of accessibility. These are places where the risk is simply too high to have a handgun readily accessible to those -- who shouldn't, for any reason, have access -- in the environment. Kids+guns = high enough risk to restrict. Drunk people+guns = high enough risk to restrict. Criminals (often found in courthouses, etc)+guns = high enough risk to restrict. You can see the pattern.
Of course you could argue that in ANY environment there exists a risk, but the definition of a threshold falls under the reasonableness clauses upon which our entire constitution and legal framework is based.
BTW, just so we're straight, private property owners in Texas have the right to restrict the possession of firearms (legal or illegal) at any time. They may do this by posting what is called a "30.06" sign (look it up) which outright makes it a felony to carry beyond that point. Or they can simply ask someone that they know is carrying to leave the premises. Failure to do so is felony trespassing.
But, of course, criminals are definitely going to investigate, learn, and adhere to these laws. *sigh*
It is EQUALLY illegal for me to pull my legally carried firearm and shoot you for no good reason as it is for a criminal to pull his illegally carried firearm and do the same thing. But, by all means, cling to those signs if they help you sleep at night.
This post was a little too unbiased for my tastes. Seriously.
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BRINGING GUNS INTO PARKS! WTF! I can respect the differences of my fellow Americans, but thank God you can't do that here.
A Park may not be the best place to carry a weapon of any nature.After all,usually there are Children playing and Beer drinking which will make all that serious "training" mute. Pretty much the same with Bars...please,no Guns so I don't have to worry if I look incorrectly at some patron. I can see why the statistic's are good for concealed handgun users and the safety record...I don't think all that many people actually carry Guns legally with a License.
Fair enough. I'm indifferent to the statement that you think "I don't think all that many people actually carry Guns (not sure when they ascended to the rank of capilalization) legally with a License (see above)."
The fact of the matter is that we do. I'm not getting on a pedestal when I say this. If there is an event in which a violent crime threatens your life there is very little chance that a concealed handgun owner in the vicinity will do a single thing to help you. That is how far the litigious nature of this issue has gone. I carry for the protection of myself and my immediate family members (and, from experience, I can say the same for every CHL holder I know). So, in the end, you will never know.
Anyone with the intent to carry for crime's sake will do it regardless of your statements or this state's laws and this is an entirely moot point. Anyone carrying for personal protection's sake will do so without your knowledge and that will be that. So, in either case, you are VASTLY more likely to see a crimial's gun than a law-abiding citizens'. Don't worry about it. I'll take care of myself if the need arises (and you ranting about your topic of the day isn't a valid "self-defense" justification...as you imply is my violent nature) and you are just as on your own as you ever were. Otherwise, you will never be the wiser.
The reality is that we are all around you. Every hour. Every day. Don't worry, we aren't interesting in advertising the fact. In all likelyhood you will live your life without incident. I sincerly hope that is true. I am not basing my safety on that hope. If the day ever comes (I pray it doesn't) that I am in a life or death decision state I am confident that my training will prevail. This should be understood within a framework in which I (we) are taught to avoid insecure situatations with almost religious fervor. I frankly don't care what happens to you (not the same as hoping that it happens to you, which I'm sure you will imply) in the same situation.
So, let's look at the possible outcomes:
1. You will live your life to fruition with no violent altercations whatsoever (my heartfelt desire for myself and those close to me).
2. You will encounter a violent indiviual and escape somehow unharmed. Good for you. Takes real savvy and quickwhitedness at times.
3. You will be involved in a life-threatening situation in which you or a loved one is killed. Sad.
In none of these scenarios did my possessing or not possessing a firearm have any influence over the outcome...whether I was 5 feet or 5 miles away. I wouldn't have become involved in any case because I would have been high-tailing it away from you at the first sign (which I suspect I would have noticed long before you) of trouble. So, legal firearms simply don't enter into the conversation. But because you like to live your life oblivious to the potential threat of personal harm (yes, even in -- *GASP* -- parks) doesn't mean I am going to agree.
But, as I so strongly assert, you will never know. That's becuase the hundreds of thousands of us around you will adhere to the law and never LET you know.
Live in fear of us. We intend you harm. Whatever. You don't interest us in the slightest. Amusing, really.
OK, OK - before this gets out of hand... let me try to re-state what otter is saying but in simpler terms.
1) The concealed handgun debate is an old one and will be around awhile but *everyone* must look at the statistics and not react based on emotion. What I see is a lot of reaction of "OMG, it's a gun! If I am near a gun I could get shot! OMG!"
2) CHL holders have extremely low gun incident statistics, lower that average because they are so well trained and they are specifically trained *not* to overreact and worsen a situation.
3) The fear surrounding concealed handguns is emotional - it is not based on fact. Statistics consistently show that this is *not* making the community less safe nor is it increasing gun violence - it actually decreases it and that is good for everyone, whether or not you carry (so you can complain but you are definitely reaping the rewards of the CHL law).
4) That being said every citizen has the right to feel this way and choose not to carry but please don't forget that every citizen *also* has the right to carry legally if he/she chooses.
5) Finally, here in Houston/Texas, you work and live around many more CHL holders than you think but you would never know because that is the whole point - it's a "concealed" handgun license and not meant to be flaunted.
OK, that is it for me. Over & out...
thank you for mentioning those things - it's hard to know what is going on from the other side when you don't know much about it.
i do have one friend that i recently discovered is a chl holder. i respect his right to lawfully carry, and i guess i see it almost as a constant living-in-fear-type-thing (even though he would say the weapon allays his fears).
of course, i do know that if i were ever with him and attacked, i might get the opportunity to see some (insert body part here) blown to pieces in front of me...