Houstonist: Sour Grapes at Houston's Ranking as 19th Most Desirable City

Jim Parsons

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:51:40 -0600

One of the interesting things about the Pew survey that started this whole discussion is that two-thirds of the respondents wouldn't want to live in most of the major cities in the U.S. Yeah, 23 percent said they would like living in Houston, but look at the other results — Chicago, New York, L.A., Washington and Philadelphia are all within two percentage points up or down the scale.

onewaywidow

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:37:40 -0600

DC doesn't have its share of conservatives? There's a good mix of political views in this city, just like there is in Austin or anywhere else in the US. Look, Houston isn't perfect and most people are not claiming that it is. We're doing the best with what we have here. Yeah, it will never be NYC, LA or Chicago, but we still manage to live our lives as happily as can be. It's hot, you say? It gets hot in plenty of places. It gets humid in plenty of places. So what? We happen to utilize a very helpful invention called the AIR CONDITIONER. 70% of the city is a ghetto? You've got to be kidding me. There are parts of the city that aren't so well kept, yes, but ghetto? I beg to differ. McMansions and ugly houses, you betcha. Not everyone with money (or the credit to take out loans they can afford) will be a beacon of good taste. You can't hold that against the city. Houston hasn't been the fattest city for a few years now. In 2008, we were 10th on the list. Las Vegas is #1. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-10-fattest-fittest-cities_N.htm What I love about Houston is that - believe or not - it is a melting pot. Unlike NYC or Chicago, ethnic groups aren't sectioned off to certain parts of the city. We have two Chinatowns. You can get Mexican food in any part of the city. While driving is an unfortunate necessity, if you know the city well there's more than one way to get around. And I'm not talking about the highways. We've got great museums and great restaurants. It's no Broadway, but we have great theater. Once in a blue moon, you even get to see some great concerts and comedians. There's a lot to enjoy, if you let yourself.

TX2DC

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:11:43 -0600

Oh please, Houston is not cool! Let's see, about 70% of the city is a ghetto. It's hot. The metro area is a never ending slew of unimaginative, boring urban sprawl and McMansions. Houston is one of America's fattest, unhealthiest cities. It's conservative. Air quality sucks. I'm sorry, but I grew up Texas. Where I'm from, people refer to Houston as "The Armpit". Just putting my 2 cents in....

TX2DC

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:11:07 -0600

hillrat

Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:35:02 -0600

Goodness, what a little temper tantrum. We at Houstonist are tired of defending our city, so instead we want to know what you, dear reader, love about it. Let us know in the comments why you think Houston is great. As for Mr. Ward, here's an idea: why not educate out-of-towners on why your city is so great? Wow, a rare moment maturity from the blogosphere! What a novel concept, kudos for having the good sense to talk about what makes your city great rather than lamely trashing other cities. @mamacita Third comment and you indulge yourself with a 20 year old joke at DC's expense? Weak. Lose two cool points for not following directions and two more for a stunning lack of originality.

Chester Soria

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:51:43 -0600

I've spent almost 20 years of my life in Houston, of which I spent about 16 years hating it. It wasn't until I started getting active with the city that I really started realizing just how much I had been willfully ignoring. I'd venture to say that most of the people in Houston who complain about it are just that. For whatever reason, you think your experiences in other cities trumps your handful of years in Houston. I only recently moved to New York, and it's taking me a while to acclimate. I'll tell you a couple things though: I made more money in one week in Houston than I do in two in New York. I share an apartment with two people, an apartment maybe half as large and three times as expensive as I was paying for my own place in Montrose. My commute to work doubled because of mass transit. When all is said and done, though, I'm not going to be jerk and try to qualify the differences and judge a city because of my own experiences. I'm slowly getting used to New York, and I still miss what I had in Houston. But there's really no comparison, and no one here has tried draw any except you. You can resent Houston as much as you want, but you obviously resented way before you moved there. And if indeed your resentfulness is aimed at the pride that Houstonians have in their city, then just get over it. There are a lot of reasons we love and want to improve the city, and we've really only just started.

Jason Bargas

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:41:55 -0600

John Q, sorry to hear that you don't like living in Houston. Based on your comments, it seems that you are living here as part of a work arrangement. Being forced to live somewhere due to work sucks. Where do you live in Houston? Perhaps the commenters can point out a few things that you could try in your area of town that may make your remaining time in Houston not that bad. Life is too short to be grumpy, drink cheap bourbon or both.

Jason Bargas

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:25:38 -0600

FYI, the chart is actually titled: "America's Most Popular Big Cities - % who say they want to live in this city or its surrounding metropolitan area." Houston is, in fact, tied for 19th on the list with Las Vegas and Riverside with 23% of respondents saying they would like to live here. Thanks for reading and contributing to the dialog, John Q.

mcook2002

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:41:32 -0600

John...I was going to write a few verbose posts like you have been, but I had to do some work here at the ol' job these last few days. Plus, all I could really come up with is that it would suck to be you (or part of your family, but you are probably single). JKL, Mike

John Q

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:54:20 -0600

The facts and cites are there, I copied them right out of the very study. So hit that little up arrow on your keyboard and put on your glasses. Better yet, why don't you do what the authors didn't do and read the ENTIRE study like I did. Claiming that we are in the "top 19" isn't even the same thing as being number 23, which we are, and can't even be compared to say 'the glass is half full/empty' since they are really just bragging that we got on the list at all and crying sour grapes that Dallas got chosen above us. As for my personal experiences, those are pretty revealing. Its easy: I look at how much I paid in a year for electricity, insurance, travel expenses, and what I have left over. Basically I spend more in every category except housing. You may not keep records going back 10 years and many states, but I do. While much is personal likes and dislikes, I've been around enough to know when something is good or not. I'm not alone on this, and a Realtor recently told me of so many people from afar that moved here and promptly left feeling misled and cheated. Oh, and if I had to re-hire here at local salary rates as if I was a local, I'd probably take 20k less, or more likely they would never call because the market here is flooded with people looking for high end jobs and employers always seem to favor transplants for some reason. Thats how I got here and I'm leaving the same way. Quit being lazy and look stuff up like I did. Before you let any more uninformed assumptions fall out of your neck, try reading and thinking first please. Oh, and what's this "we" you refer to as if your time was too valuable to waste? Have a vocal section do you? Or you presume to speak for everyone. Poor everyone...

Michelle Calabretta

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:16:51 -0600

Smug? The article was written to encourage the readers to comment on what they love about the city. No where in that article is there embellishment of "the real stuff". JohnQ, I suggest you take another dose of whatever medication is currently prescribed to you and repeat after me: It's not Houston that's making me miserable.

Red

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:13:45 -0600

John Q, stop telling people to "back their claims up with facts or personal experience" when all you've done is tell everyone that your personal experiences are the only ones that are valid. Parophit presented facts and you dismissed them. Seems to me that your entire system of argument is faulty. If you want to talk facts, bring some out. Show us how energy and transportation is cheaper in California than it is here. Show us how Houston employers actively recruit people from out of state and pay them more because the local workforce is unskilled. Prove to me that the cost of living here is higher than in other cities. Back up with facts your claims that other cities have "higher standards." If you can cite reliable sources for all those assertions, I'll gladly listen. But if your only method of argument is to discount opinions that differ from yours and call people with differing opinions stupid, then why should we waste any more time on you?

John Q

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:02:13 -0600

Ok then... I fail to hear anything other than the usual "great shopping/restaraunts/neighborhoods/museums/etc" that everyone always mentions. Except there is more to it than that. Like aesthetic beauty for one. Theres something to be said for living in a place where they don't tear down any structure a few years old to build ugly glass and stucco buildings. Its weird going to neighborhoods where there are nice houses, then a car lot, then a school, then a sleazy bar... How about a CLEAN ocean or lake? Or (you may need to look this up in wikipedia) trees and forestry? Mountains and terrain that varies more than +/- 100 feet? (yeah, you people in the Heights aren't actually higher than a lot of your houston neighbors) Or real culture, not just a couple cutesy areas. Don't act all put off and offended since you that are 'tired of defending Houston' are always trashing on CA and NY- states that have been and always will be far more desirable than here. So don't dish it if you can't take it. Oooo, what are you gonna do? Mow me down in your obnoxious SUVs? I'm so scared. You have the rudest, most unskilled and uninsured drivers north of Bogata, so I wouldn't be surpised. Anyways, we went waaay off track here. The original and only point I made was the factual misrepresentations of the nauseatinly smug article above. You may love it here, and that's fine. But quit embellishing on the real stuff like salaries, cost of living, crime and quality of living. Its not true, and you can't prove it no matter how many C list reporters you wine and dine. Anyone can look this crap up. I did. I pointed it out, and I wont be told "how it is" by anyone who can't back their claims up with facts or personal experience.

Brittanie Shey

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:03:58 -0600

John Q, the exact wording was "the refreshing waters of Galveston". I never called the Muddy Gulf beautiful, so while you're wasting your time ranting about how much you hate this city you chose to live in, it would help if you developed some cut-and-paste skills. Besides, it's called sarcasm. The most insufferable people are those who complain about things that are extremely easy to change. Synopsis: GTFO. Secondly, I have lived in many places, traveled to many international cities, and I'm always glad to come back to my adopted home of Houston. I don't consider zoning and "not being ugly" a quality of life factor. My quality of life is made better by the fact that it takes me five minutes to get home from work. That I can eat out for cheap at a variety of restaurants, or cook in the kitchen of the home that I own for a decent price, instead of an expensive studio apartment I share with three housemates. That within ten minutes I can be at one of four beautiful parks with dog facilties, running trails and acres of green space (including one that is bigger than Central Park). If you think the only thing to do in Houston is drink and eat, you aren't paying attention. Quality of life is what you make it. It's what you do in the evenings, on weekends, with people you love and enjoy. It's the fun you make. I could live in Paris and be miserable if I was determined to make myself hate every minute of it. Seems like you've done a good job of accomplishing exactly that here.

Jim Parsons

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:32:29 -0600

It gets me when people imply that the only folks who could possibly enjoy living in Houston are those who have never set foot anywhere else. Not true. A lot of people here could live in other cities, but they choose not to. They are intelligent, successful, informed people who really like it here, hard as that may be for some people to believe. One of the things I like about Houston is that there's so much to discover here: Great restaurants, a fantastic arts scene, diverse neighborhoods, cool architecture and absolutely incredible people. Yeah, I hear a lot of people say that this is a place with no culture and nothing to do, but clearly those people haven't looked around. It's not chamber of commerce drivel; it's the truth. Does that mean it's a perfect place? Definitely not. Houston is rough around the edges, not always pretty, sometimes intensely confusing. But I'll take that any day over the sanitized white-bread atmosphere I've seen other places. If that makes me stupid, then hey, at least I'm in good company.

Plum Texan

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:14:41 -0600

I get really, really tired of the Houston bashing. Yes, it gets hot in the summer. Yes, the traffic sucks. Yes, we have big mosquitoes. Yes, we have hurricanes. Yes, it sprawls. I say that's just the tax we pay for living in such a great place. We may not be heavy on tourist attractions, but the food and shopping are amazing and diverse - as are the people. I've had many transplants tell me they love it here because we're so friendly, too. Big industries (not just oil)...lower unemployment rates than even other cities in Texas...neighborhoods to suit good ol' boys and socialites and everybody in between...hmm. Three out of four Americans wouldn't move here? Well, good. More Houston for the rest of us!

John Q

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:11:53 -0600

We know how accurate governement figures are with regards to costs. But my own records tell a very different story. I pay much more in energy and transportation costs here than in california. This more than takes away from the propery advantage. Dispute away, but "payscale.com" is hardly an authoritative source. Going to montster, or headhunter, etc quickly tells the real story. That doctors or any IT related job pays more here is pure horse manure. When employers are so quick to interview and hire out of towners for much higher than locally advertised rates speaks volumes. And while you may get more for you money here, you really aren't getting more at all. So what you have a newer condo in the heights or med center, or a 3000sqft house and a pool? Thats all you have. Its about the quality of living around you, as in zoning and not being ugly. You get what you pay for, and here thats not much. Elsewhere in the world you like to downplay so much, we gladly pay more for smaller places to live because we have so many BEAUTIFUL places to be, and interesting things to do besides eating out and going to trashy nightlife. How do I know this? Because I'm not some dolt that sits behind a desk pulling figures out of the air. I've lived in almost a dozen cities far and near for more than just a week or two. The people that seem to think this is the cat's meow and repeat these chamber of commerce pieces like parrots can't say that. I'm not trying to be rude, but when you've lived in much of the rest of the US and hear people say these kinds of things over and over again, its just plain annoying. Anyone can bend and twist figures or make up numbers, but they really should be carefull if they can't back it up with firsthand knowlege.

CUERVO

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:05:27 -0600

WHAT'S THE MATTER, JOHN Q., AIN'T YA GETTIN' LAID?

parophit

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:47:22 -0600

1. the cost of living index in houston is 88.1 (100 being the national average) so even if you are making 10k-20k less, which i dispute (see 1a), you have more money in your pocket. kiplinger.com 1a. energy analysts, medical doctors and software developers all make more money in houston versus the national average. payscale.com 2. i am not really talking about mcmansions. i live five miles from downtown and although my house is expensive it would be twice that cost in any other major city. there is a new york times article that states you get more house for your money in houston than any other big city in the nation. 3. according to census.gov houston has the sixth longest commute of the ten largest cities in america. 4. stay or leave it really doesnt matter.

Red

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:42:11 -0600

Wow. You are very clearly the superior intellect here. Have fun with the other 75 percent of the country. I hear Dubuque is nice this time of year.

John Q

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:15:54 -0600

Is that so? Well at least I don't have to use a dictionary to look up such a simple word. If you disagree with me CITE EXAMPLES like I did. Don't whine because I looked up FACTUAL contradictions in the very article this idiot quoted from and pointed them out. As the study says, "3 out of 4" people don't want to live here, so it sounds like you're outvoted unless you have another way of doing math. Is that condescending enough for you?

Red

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:15:23 -0600

Arrogance: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions. John Q, the only presumptuous claims or assumptions I've seen in these comments are yours: Houston businesses hire "anyone with a pulse and a green card," utility rates here are the highest (in the country, I assume you mean) and that the city runs on incompetence and nepotism. Either present facts to back yourself up or stop calling other people stupid simply because you disagree with them — because at the moment, you're the only one here who looks ignorant.

John Q

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:59:16 -0600

Dear Mcook2002 et al, I will. thanks. Don't need your permission or suggestion to in any case. As to growth jobs, blah blah. Yeah I see you have lots of jobs. Problem is, they pay an average of 10-20k less than anywhere else. Which would be fine if it truly was cheaper to live here. It is not. Cheap McMmansions are only part of the equation. I believe you have the highest (or nearly) utility rates, and drive outrageous distances to get to anything. Yeah, deregulating your electric was a real smart idea huh? Probably because companies here are cheap, and will hire anyone with a pulse and a green card. So don't hate when your companies pay people like me twice the price to do your jobs because they are tired of incompetence and nepotism. We just have a little higher standards elsewhere. Yep. I'm gonna take my money and run... In the end, it is people like you that will make me glad when I'm gone. Arrogence alone is bad enough. But when its based on bogus information (as in this article, where they obviously didn't even read the whole thing) it just makes you sound stupid.

parophit

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:52:16 -0600

It really doesnt matter where Houston ranks on lists like this. The only rankings that truly matter are growth, affordability and jobs. Houston always ranks at the tops of those lists. Houston has an identitiy crisis. We will never have the curb appeal of a miami, los angeles, new york or even chicago. The reality is that it doesnt matter. You can buy a nice house for not very much money, properly educate your kids, make a good salary and have access to quality cultural arts.

mcook2002

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:48:26 -0600

Dear John Q, Please move. Yours Truly, Houston

John Q

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:54:47 -0600

DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE REPORT SMUGLY CITED IN THIS ARTICLE: Not all Western and Southern cities rated highly. Los Angeles finished well down the list, with 78% of the public saying they would not want to live there. Houston and Las Vegas fared nearly as poorly: Three-in four Americans say they don’t want to live in either city.

John Q

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:38:03 -0600

First of all, Houston ranked *23*, let me repeat *23* in the list. In other words, the bottom half, not even the top 10 or top anything. As someone who has lived in 3 of the top 10 cities, and several others I totally agree with the reviewer. Sorry you people can't see the truth, but when you have little experience with which to compare, thats understandable. After almost two years here, I'd say he's dead on. this is in fact a mostly ugly, charmless city with little identity or warmth other than the miserable summers already mentioned. People here do think the sun rises and sets, often to the point of being proud of their own ignorance. "beautiful waters of Galveston???" You're kidding right? Using "world class" or even "class" at all in the same sentence with Houston is tantamount to false advertising at the least. Oh, and don't hate on Dallas just because they make more money, the city is cleaner, and its not Houston... I am one of many outsiders that is CONSTANTLY amused at astonishing propaganda spewed conveniently from within our own 'boarders' that isn't based on any level of reality. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I am sick of hearing all the hot air, while you trash on other cities like your s*&% doesn't stink. Oh yeah, you rank the same as Las Vegas... Now THAT is sure sign of class. Its sad when more people want to live in Miami or Phoenix. The numbers don't lie, and the truth hurts.

Jason Bargas

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:13:00 -0600

I'm fortunate that I can live anywhere with my current bills-paying-job (it ain't Houstonist) as long as I don't mind traveling to the client site. That said, I've chosen Houston over Austin, Chicago & pre-2005 New Orleans. Houston is comfortable like an old college t-shirt and a pair of flip flops. Other options may be more chic or shinier, but it feels a bit more like an endurance contest to live elsewhere. Ten Random Things I Love About HoustonStrawberry lemonade @ Irma'sMore warm months that cold monthsCold beer @ W. Alabama Ice House on a hot Saturday afternoon.Multiple routes to get around town and skirt the crappy trafficDiversityHot pot @ Tan TanWeekday games at Minute Maid to watch the AstrosDisc golf @ TC Jester ParkBicycle pub crawlingThe spectacle that is the HLSR carnival scene

fayza

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:55:45 -0600

Houston has 13 Celsius. Do we even need anything else to be awesome?

TheKid

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:55:16 -0600

This Ward guy is an idiot. Did he even read the results of the survey? It wasn't a question of who's city is better or what one city has to offer versus another. It was a survey asking whether or not you were happy living in your current city, or wished you were living somewhere else. I like living in Houston a lot, because it's got nice people, good food, great weather most of the year, way cooler accents than the midwest, and a HUGE rodeo.

CUERVO

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:14:56 -0600

As a current resident of Minnesota I can tell you that "minnesota nice" is a load of crap. I miss Houston , where I lived for 13 years. The reasons why Houston is a great place to live are too many to list. I will admit that the humidity wasn't one of them.How friendly & helpful people are there tops my list. But there are thousands of other reasons Houston rocks. The great ethnic restaurants. The museums. Specs Smith St. store. Montrose. The Heights. Chinatown(s). Warren's & La Carafe. The Alley. Miller Outdoor Theater & Herman Park. Memorial Park. The Galleria. The Skylines - Downtown, Post Oak/Galleria, The Medical Center. Galveston/ Strand an hour away. The many talented artists in the area. Then, on the other hand, since the Minneapolis Star/Tribune's current owners have taken over the paper sucks. They have laid off all the good columnists/reporters, changed the format so it's almost unreadable. Karma has come around & bit them in the ass. The "strib" is on the verge of going belly-up-bankrupt, but the owners losses will be offset by all the downtown valuable real estate they own. The employees, on the other hand, will not be as lucky. So, yeah, if I were a reporter that's job may be gone soon, I'd be a little bitter,too.

dfx13

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:50:45 -0600

I'd rather drive through relentless humidity than freezing rain any day.

ERAHouston

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:30:19 -0600

Minnesota is broke. http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/02/inadequate-loan-loss-reserves-at.html

bluepencil

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:07:37 -0600

Houston's cool because no one who doesn't live here knows it's cool, and because of that, you don't get the smug pretension that exists in cities like San Francisco or even Austin (right on, Mamacita - if the hipsters were truly hip they'd be here. Austin is such a cliché place for hipsters to gravitate to...). Also there's a certain understated charm to the zoneless development that you don't find in more "organized" cities. Go Houston.

bluepencil

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:03:53 -0600

Brittanie Shey

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:03:45 -0600

relentless humidity I hate the notion that our summers are one of our biggest flaws, and it's one of the first three reasons a Houston-hater will site when bashing our town. For one, I *love* the dead of summer in Houston. I regularly go running in the July mid-day heat. If it weren't that freaking hot No One would go swimming in the refreshing waters of Galveston. Secondly, this ain't 1910. We *do* have air conditioning. What, people can't bother to suffer the 90-degree heat for the two minutes it takes them to get from their parked car to the Disco Kroger produce department?

mamacita

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:29:58 -0600

That's exactly what I was going to say-- "Houston: It's not f*cking Dallas." It's hard not to snark on the cities ahead of us on the list. For example, I'm sure Washington D.C. is a lovely place if you like getting shot. But maybe one of the best things about living here is that it's a secret. Let the hipsters have Austin; we know the truth.

nathanhoang

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:12:20 -0600

Rockets, Cougars, Authentic Mexican food, chili, not being Dallas.

zazie

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:51:58 -0600

I would like to say, we are much better than dallas any day hands down. I moved from there and after 6 months here, I feel in love with the charm, the biking, the people, the traffic, and much more. Once you move here you, begin to see the charm in every cartier.